Invisible Revolutionary (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
invisionary) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
the_2nd2010-03-15 07:55 pm
invisionary) wrote in the_2nd2010-03-15 07:55 pm
Entry tags:
Gun Control? Why yes, I have excellent gun control.
Guns. I'd like to talk about guns. It's part of the namesake of this community, isn't it?
I'm pretty decently to the left on a lot of things, but private ownership of firearms is one where I take a fairly conservative stance.
So, who among you thinks the legally insane should have guns? What about violent felons? Maybe some of the more hardcore libertarians, but I'm not among them. When some batshit psychopath blows someone's head off with a sawed-off 12 ga. people get this stupid idea that it's deer hunters in upstate NY who do this, and it's not. There are people that rightfully shouldn't have guns - kids too young to safely operate them, people fresh out of the loony bin, violent felons, idiots who have previously demonstrated wanton and careless disrespect with guns (someone actually using their shotgun at a wedding), and people who have no issue with beating their wives, children, animals, etc. None of these people would ever form a well-regulated militia.
If you're not in one of those categories, congratulations, I support your right to legally obtain and operate the firearm of your choice, from a .22 bolt-action rifle to any gun that a single person can carry and operate (even if it might be done by two people in the field). I have to draw the line at bombers and nukes though. I support your right to own as many of them as you wish, with as much ammo as you want, contingent on your ability to keep it secure. I support your right to carry weapons on your person, concealed or openly carried, and in your vehicle (but unloaded, just in case you hit a bump and the gun malfunctions). And I support your right to safely enjoy them. These are rights you and I have as legal residents of the United States.
Now anytime anyone says those dreaded words "gun control", do you think of the UK? Or of BATF agents kicking down your door searching your home with dogs looking for your weapons? I don't. I think of people in the middle of large cities being grateful that someone's willing to do something about getting the Saturday Night Specials off the streets.
I'd like to mention a problem here in Albany, NY. Because of the current gun laws, illegal possession of a firearm will get your ass sent up the river. So, in order to get around this, the locals have taken to the concept of a "community gun". Basically, it's a handgun, usually some cheap POS that's as likely to jam as fire, with some rounds, where a good number of people know about where it is (usually an abandoned house or some other out of the way hiding spot), that anyone who feels the need to keep the peace in the neighborhood can go and get it and return it. Screw getting assault weapons off the street, people don't kill each other with AKs in the city, nobody can afford them. They do it with guns like this. This is a side effect I think of institutional racism in police forces, but that's another rant entirely. Long story short, people are going to do this when they don't feel like they can trust the police. Wait a second here - full circle? How many gun owners don't trust the government? I'm sure that's more than a few of us.
So, the issue here is the government is responsible for protecting both a fundamental American right, as well as providing for the general safety and welfare of the public. It seems like they fail at both. What we need is the promotion of responsible gun ownership, with government recognition of the people who responsibly keep and bear arms. This is where gun control comes in - I would like to see a universal system where gun owners are licensed and registered.
Now, I'm sure I've got y'alls blood boiling already. Simmer down, have a homebrew or other tasty beverage. How many of you live in states where the police make final determination as to who can get a carry permit, and don't generally hand them out at all? That system needs to end. Part of universal licensing is to eliminate that system. If you aren't one of those categories of people I talked about earlier, you have a protected right to get a gun and the cops can shut up about it.
Second, how many of you have seen some idiot at the range or somewhere else being STUPID with their guns, things that five minutes of time with a qualified instructor who would be just about ready to beat the crap out of them for? We make drivers go through written and practical exams to demonstrate they know the rules of the road and can operate a vehicle on a basic level before we let the drive unsupervised on public roads. I don't think it's unreasonable to require a prospective gun owner demonstrate that they have enough knowledge of the various types of guns and know how to be safe with them before they're allowed to own one. I also want the kind of idiot that rounds off the hammer on a TEC-9 so it will cook off its mag to have to wear a sign saying I'm Stupid, and that license revoked. No, ya can't stop him from ever using a gun again, no more than a suspended drivers license actually stops a person from driving, but you can drag his ass in court for it and take the guns from him you can find.
(Oh, and to Joe Six-pack who gets trashed and then plinks the cans in the backyard, F you. You give the haters reason to hate us.)
To address the problem of community guns, I would like to see a full amnesty given to anyone who turns in a gun to law enforcement (for having the gun, not for anything they might have done with it). In fact, post a bounty on the things - $100 for no more than showing ID at the local cop shop would go a long way to getting these guns gone. If the gun is safe to operate, sell it back to a registered dealer who can find it a nice home, or destroy it if you must. If the gun is registered to someone, give them a call first to find out what happened. This is a good reason to actually register your guns - if someone finds it, or steals it, you can get the thing back. It's also a good reason for new owners to register the sales, so that they get the same protection.
We all know criminals prefer unarmed targets. An armed society is not necessarily a polite society, but the knowledge that someone down the street is trained and capable of keeping the peace will keep the peace on the street. I want legislation that promotes our right - not restricts it in ways that only make it more difficult for us to legitimately police our communities.
So, let's hear your thoughts.
Edit: To be more rules compliant, I have cleaned up my language a bit.
I'm pretty decently to the left on a lot of things, but private ownership of firearms is one where I take a fairly conservative stance.
So, who among you thinks the legally insane should have guns? What about violent felons? Maybe some of the more hardcore libertarians, but I'm not among them. When some batshit psychopath blows someone's head off with a sawed-off 12 ga. people get this stupid idea that it's deer hunters in upstate NY who do this, and it's not. There are people that rightfully shouldn't have guns - kids too young to safely operate them, people fresh out of the loony bin, violent felons, idiots who have previously demonstrated wanton and careless disrespect with guns (someone actually using their shotgun at a wedding), and people who have no issue with beating their wives, children, animals, etc. None of these people would ever form a well-regulated militia.
If you're not in one of those categories, congratulations, I support your right to legally obtain and operate the firearm of your choice, from a .22 bolt-action rifle to any gun that a single person can carry and operate (even if it might be done by two people in the field). I have to draw the line at bombers and nukes though. I support your right to own as many of them as you wish, with as much ammo as you want, contingent on your ability to keep it secure. I support your right to carry weapons on your person, concealed or openly carried, and in your vehicle (but unloaded, just in case you hit a bump and the gun malfunctions). And I support your right to safely enjoy them. These are rights you and I have as legal residents of the United States.
Now anytime anyone says those dreaded words "gun control", do you think of the UK? Or of BATF agents kicking down your door searching your home with dogs looking for your weapons? I don't. I think of people in the middle of large cities being grateful that someone's willing to do something about getting the Saturday Night Specials off the streets.
I'd like to mention a problem here in Albany, NY. Because of the current gun laws, illegal possession of a firearm will get your ass sent up the river. So, in order to get around this, the locals have taken to the concept of a "community gun". Basically, it's a handgun, usually some cheap POS that's as likely to jam as fire, with some rounds, where a good number of people know about where it is (usually an abandoned house or some other out of the way hiding spot), that anyone who feels the need to keep the peace in the neighborhood can go and get it and return it. Screw getting assault weapons off the street, people don't kill each other with AKs in the city, nobody can afford them. They do it with guns like this. This is a side effect I think of institutional racism in police forces, but that's another rant entirely. Long story short, people are going to do this when they don't feel like they can trust the police. Wait a second here - full circle? How many gun owners don't trust the government? I'm sure that's more than a few of us.
So, the issue here is the government is responsible for protecting both a fundamental American right, as well as providing for the general safety and welfare of the public. It seems like they fail at both. What we need is the promotion of responsible gun ownership, with government recognition of the people who responsibly keep and bear arms. This is where gun control comes in - I would like to see a universal system where gun owners are licensed and registered.
Now, I'm sure I've got y'alls blood boiling already. Simmer down, have a homebrew or other tasty beverage. How many of you live in states where the police make final determination as to who can get a carry permit, and don't generally hand them out at all? That system needs to end. Part of universal licensing is to eliminate that system. If you aren't one of those categories of people I talked about earlier, you have a protected right to get a gun and the cops can shut up about it.
Second, how many of you have seen some idiot at the range or somewhere else being STUPID with their guns, things that five minutes of time with a qualified instructor who would be just about ready to beat the crap out of them for? We make drivers go through written and practical exams to demonstrate they know the rules of the road and can operate a vehicle on a basic level before we let the drive unsupervised on public roads. I don't think it's unreasonable to require a prospective gun owner demonstrate that they have enough knowledge of the various types of guns and know how to be safe with them before they're allowed to own one. I also want the kind of idiot that rounds off the hammer on a TEC-9 so it will cook off its mag to have to wear a sign saying I'm Stupid, and that license revoked. No, ya can't stop him from ever using a gun again, no more than a suspended drivers license actually stops a person from driving, but you can drag his ass in court for it and take the guns from him you can find.
(Oh, and to Joe Six-pack who gets trashed and then plinks the cans in the backyard, F you. You give the haters reason to hate us.)
To address the problem of community guns, I would like to see a full amnesty given to anyone who turns in a gun to law enforcement (for having the gun, not for anything they might have done with it). In fact, post a bounty on the things - $100 for no more than showing ID at the local cop shop would go a long way to getting these guns gone. If the gun is safe to operate, sell it back to a registered dealer who can find it a nice home, or destroy it if you must. If the gun is registered to someone, give them a call first to find out what happened. This is a good reason to actually register your guns - if someone finds it, or steals it, you can get the thing back. It's also a good reason for new owners to register the sales, so that they get the same protection.
We all know criminals prefer unarmed targets. An armed society is not necessarily a polite society, but the knowledge that someone down the street is trained and capable of keeping the peace will keep the peace on the street. I want legislation that promotes our right - not restricts it in ways that only make it more difficult for us to legitimately police our communities.
So, let's hear your thoughts.
Edit: To be more rules compliant, I have cleaned up my language a bit.
Probably coming down to the left of where you intended...
What do you think are the benefits of carrying a handgun? And are they sufficient to negate the associated costs (the easier it is to obtain firearms, the easier it is for them to be acquired for committing crime, and more firearms in circulation = greater opportunity for them to enter the black market)? I'm asking, not to be antagonistic, but to find out your views on the topic, if that's okay?
Re: Probably coming down to the left of where you intended...
Personally, I think a handgun carrier is accepting a tremendous responsibility and must be mentally prepared for it. I firmly believe that nobody should carry a gun for purposes of self-defense that is not prepared to use it at a moment's notice should the situation demand it. Furthermore, that gun stays in its holster unless you fully intend to use it, with full knowledge of the risks of that, and the ability to accept whatever consequences may arise. Seriously, people need to think about this. This isn't a matter for law as much as ethics, though.
Still, it makes some people feel safer, or like they are contributing to a safer society, because they carry in public. And given what it's like to be a minority of many different sorts in this country, I can fully appreciate feeling the need for an extra layer of protection. But I personally would caution anyone who is considering it to think long and hard about all of this.
Re: Probably coming down to the left of where you intended...
To jump in here, personally, I agree that it's kind of weird that handguns are just left out and about (well, in a 'known' location that anybody can get to) because that goes against what I believe is the safe and proper respect of a firearm. While I don't think I want people to be required to have gun safes (I don't yet) I do think that people should be expected to treat them with care like any weapon.
As to the benefits of carrying a handgun: while I personally have not had the experience of being mugged or assaulted, I have had friends who have. I have one friend who used a handgun to successfully halt a situation where a man was threatening a woman in a parking lot. In that situation, if he hadn't had the weapon he wouldn't have felt comfortable stepping in to stop the situation and it's unknown what would have happened to the woman if all my friend could do was call 911 and pray.
Of course, the counter argument I've heard is: what if the man had had a gun, and what if the situation escalated, what if, what if... well, personally, I think that options are good. I would rather have the ability to defend myself than not, and if the other person is unstable enough that they are willing to escalate to violence, my having a gun or not wouldn't have changed that fact. Given that I know I'm sane, I'd rather have more options at my disposal when it comes to dealing with situations.
One thing that is taught to most drivers (at least in my experience) is that "you are responsible for your own safety", i.e., the concept of defensive driving. This is especially true for motorcycle riding (which I do) -- you can't trust that cars are going to do the safe and sane thing. You take responsibility for your safety into your own hands, and you do your best to ensure that you make it to your destination in one piece.
I view guns (and weapons in general) in the same light. I think that it's my responsibility to, as much as I can, protect myself and my family. Gun ownership is one part of that for me.
Re: Probably coming down to the left of where you intended...
I think there's been a bit of crossed wires here - it's the idea that anybody (subject to security checks) can walk into a shop and buy a handgun is what gives me the shivers. The concept of civilian handgun ownership simply doesn't exist here. (Hi, welcome to Europe!) The only people who would possess handguns, apart from certain special police branches (normally, police are unarmed), would be those connected with organised crime, or UDA/IRA paramilitaries.
Which, to a certain extent, explains the differences in reaction between ourselves. It's rather easy to declare guns = bad when muggers are armed with knives and syringes, not revolvers. My personal reaction, though, is that I can't see a way to reduce gun crime (and so a need for self protection) without greater restriction on personal rights to bear firearms - a vicious circle.